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Thread: PvP REDESIGN: ANALYSES AND SOLUTIONS

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    Gauldroth's Avatar
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    Lightbulb PvP REDESIGN: ANALYSES AND SOLUTIONS

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    PvP REDESIGN: ANALYSES AND SOLUTIONS

    This subject was translated from French to English with google translation
    Original French version: http://forum.clb.heroes-online.com/t...S-ET-SOLUTIONS




    For players who linger a little on the PvP HOMM online, it became clear that the systems currently in place make it unbalanced. The concerns are diverse, linked to each other, in short ... as the pvp game could be much better than that and compete with Heroes III. Although what I have written and will write reflects my feeling! And only my opinion. Trying to side all black points, the links between them, and start a reflection on the interest for the players and for ubi amend certain aspects of PvP play, sometimes in depth. Let us see the various current problems of PvP in HOMM online:



    1- PROBLEM CONCEPTUAL - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    The first point to address is the will of UbiSoft have created a view HOMM online MMO. As such, it succeeds in correctly with the game mechanics that the saga heroes offer him online chat, mounted lvl, hero skills development, well thought raid and cooperation for this type of short game. Why not! This works because the game is for a certain audience.

    Nevertheless a target problem; these players have played for most other HOMM of the saga, for both the single-player game that PvP tournaments. This same public awaits Heroes VII may be. On the PVE standpoint, HOMM online attracts and seduces these players since mechanical remain generally true to the saga with a touch MMO. But remembering the PvP mechanics of the saga HOMM, can we say the same for PvP players? Can they be seduced by long-term HOMM online? No.

    Because the difference is: PvP players HOMM compete on single player talent principle to defeat his opponent, both in the collection of resources, small battles to lose nothing before the final battle, the final battle itself. What HOMM online does not. Based online HOMM his league PvP MMO on principle unsuitable for the community: The player with a much better equipment will have a huge advantage over his opponent. A basic PvP many MMO, but not in the Heroes saga.

    CONCLUSION:
    Ubisoft creating the PvP HOMM online, did not target the entire Heroes community, but part of which the current system does not mind, or little. PvP system or running the equipment is be playing a lot, be through the CashShop to be competitive. One must do the cauldron boil you will say. This is a major point, even before talk of imbalances classes, creatures, permissive rules of the league, the meta etcetc ...
    But is it not possible to harmonize these points? Is it impossible to make a fair league, and uses the cash shop shop at the same time? Definitely yes, here is a track start:



    2- CASH SHOP & PVP: REDEFINING A HARMONY - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Reminder: for this, put aside other imbalances (to be addressed later). Imagine that equal equipment (spells, creatures, scrolls, statistics ...), a clash between two players is balanced. So the only remaining imbalance is the ability for a player via the cash shop, to be stronger than his opponent by purchasing more scrolls, and statistics (through armor) that his enemy. This can be done before the fight, having a weave with statistics optimized more quickly than others, and paying for, buying potions, scrolls, etc ... what to do? Several points:


    BALANCING AND AMENDMENT OF BONUS "INFLUENCE OF HEROES»

    This bonus two consequences at stake. It gives a more powerful army as our equipment are increasing statistics which clearly unbalanced PvP gameplay and shows the direction chosen by the player (spe attack, defense spec, spec magic , a mix, etc ...). The delete PvP to make it more just possible, but harmful because each army would lose his personality and clashes lose diversity.
    One solution would be to change the way this bonus is effective in PvP proratisant on a clean statistical basis PvP. Or said differently, each player will see in PvP allocate a bonus "influence the heroes' fixed, and whose distribution between the different characteristics (strength / defense / Critical / magic / support ..) would be reflected in the analysis of his stats PvE. A little complicated, here's an example with only two stats, strength and defense:
    A PLAYER has all add up, 8000pts stats: 4200 power (52%) + 3800 defense (48%)
    PLAYER B has all add up, 4400 stats: 1200 power (28%) + 3200 defense (72%)

    If both players are of similar levels, player A will win because it has 2.28 times more statistics than player B. Now take a common statistical base eg 6000 pts league. Player A had 52% stats power and 48% defensive stats. Player A will be proratiser stats on a base 6000pts. Same approach B. player will have:
    PLAYER A has PvP: 6000 = 3120 * 0.52 * 0.48 power and 6000 = 2880 defense
    PLAYER B has PvP: 6000 = 1680 * 0.28 * 0.72 power and 6000 = 4320 defense

    Thus, the bonus "hero of influence" in PvP will alter the supply of equipment statistical balancing. Through this, the fighting league will be more balanced, and each player will still retain the gameplay orientation chosen. PvE and is not affected by this change, so the race can continue to stuff in PvE. But new solution to this problem must be solved so: The race for the best stuff as it currently exists would disappear in PvP and therefore, it could be a loss of income in the cash shop.


    1- People who have paid for better PvP statistics would be enraged because their investments would no longer serve their purposes. And they have reasons the buggers.
    2- The cash shop would be less because less interest income for PvP players to equip.

    What to do? We must therefore maintain the race for PvP equipment too. So give interest for PvP to have values ​​of equipment increasingly important. Without this interfering in league battles. We must therefore give an advantage which acts before and / or after a PvP battle.
    Q1: In cons of changing the bonus "Hero influence" in PvP combat, which bonuses can be added to equipment in order to keep an interest in racing league stuff, and by what means these advantages trigger? See this in the next point:



    NEW PVP BENEFITS ON EQUIPMENT

    As explained above, therefore, should be established on PvP advantages of equipment that do not act on the outcome of a fight, but before and / or after. And important enough that the cash shop is still running as much as now. Ideas in bulk:
    1- BCombat ranking points Bonus:
    Each rank achieved provides the equipment. PvP stat offering bonus points per win / loss would level up and earn rewards faster players.

    2- Bonus Modifier lost troops:
    The more one evolves in PvP, less is recovered our lost troops after combat. PvP stat could offer a bonus as% of troops recovery.

    3- Bonus by rank and by fighting on equipment / awards:
    Each battle gives rewards. It is possible to provide a PvP stat improving end of combat awards and gain rank. More prestige point, more rare scrolls, farts, than whatnot.

    4- On the season Bonus point gain::
    In moderation, a PvP stat could provide additional gain points with victory / defeat. Players go up faster in the rankings. An imbalance of course, but much smaller and more just. To see.

    5- Bonus on the cost of the retreat and capitulation.
    We could see a PvP stat reduce the cost of these options. Or even make the first 3 retreats are free, etc.etc ... To meditate.

    Then finally with these small ideas, more major proposals:

    1- Some pay PvP seasons
    Edit Access to Excellence league, imposing an access price to participate seasons X heroic seals. PvP stat then give a discount on the cost of entry. If people do not want it, there is hope in the league, with lower seasonal rewards. PR this could be translated by the popularity and prestige of the knight!

    2- A limited number PvP combat by season::
    All players begin a season with 10 battle tokens. A token corresponds to the possibility of launching a PvP battle. These tokens are on sale at the cash shop, and winnable if PvP victory (one token every 3 victories by examples, and a token every 5 defeats). PvP stat could offire every season more chips, or reduce costs to the cash shop, or reduce the number of wins / losses needed to get one free.

    CONCLUSION:
    By changing the bonus "hero of influence" more precisely and offering different advantages on equipment that would be specific to PvP, can greatly improve the balance of the PvP League HOMM online without income current cash-shop are impacted. PvP fairer and a number of similar case, I leave UbiSoft see if changing his game to do so could offer him an interest.
    This concludes this first point, let us recall was based on a perfect balance between class, creatures, skills etc .... and we all unfortunately besides PvP problems mentioned above, other imbalances make the League HOMM unfair online. It is therefore both now turn mana potions, scrolls, spells area of ​​effect, spells too powerful, too strong creatures ... .From vast problems ahead!

    Original French version: http://forum.clb.heroes-online.com/t...S-ET-SOLUTIONS



    [A SUIVRE]

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    Gauldroth's Avatar
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    Reserved

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    Community Team BB_Eraya's Avatar
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    Hi Gauldroth,

    Wow what a detailed feedback report! Thank you!

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    Just remove damage scrolls and reduce the damage of spells and maybe pvp wont be such a fail. More people will play it. How many thousands of people play the game? And how many people play pvp per season? 5-10 people + some newbies who click on arena just to never come back again.

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    Gauldroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajkczss View Post
    Just remove damage scrolls and reduce the damage of spells and maybe pvp wont be such a fail. More people will play it. How many thousands of people play the game? And how many people play pvp per season? 5-10 people + some newbies who click on arena just to never come back again.
    I will address the issue soon. The only thing I can say quickly, is that it must be asked whether this kind of claim entrapine lost income * cash shop because it is a major obstacle to a redesign. For example modify yes scrolls, but suddenly they will be less interesting, so less income, so ubisoft is not obliged to do so. I will answer this soon.

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    Gauldroth's Avatar
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    SHOP CASH DURING COMBAT: PARCHMENTS, POTIONS ...

    The presence of combat in cash shop to buy scrolls and potion is based on a distress principle: You argue an important fight PvE or PvP, and do not want to lose the fight, or lose too many troops. The cash shop "in battle" for you avantagez intervenes in this situation.
    In PvE, no reason to discuss it. Players are free to use, it does not bother anyone. As against this kind of purchase although logically imbalance PvP combat. And solve complicated with the current system:
    - If the cash-shop 'in Batlle "is deleted, the same items can be bought at the store in PvE. It would be enough just to PvP players to buy their items before the fight. And we can not remove the possibility of buying them in PvE. So we are stuck.
    So, if removing are unnecessary in PvP, then we should find a solution for the cash-shop 'in-battle "gives no advantage in PvP, which is impossible since by definition the scrolls and potions are advantages! In the current state of the game, so it is impossible to prevent players from getting benefits in their PvP through the purchase of parchment and potions. Unless Ubisoft change its policy and makes the scrolls and potions and affordable purchasable with gold. ALL scrolls and potions.
    I see no solutions and to keep the cash shop's profits for the purchase of these items, without making the unbalanced PvP. And I do not think that delete scrolls and potions in PvP be a solution, because PvP lose part of its gameplay. We must keep them. The aim of this subject is to provide a balance of PvP, the intermediate solution could one mentioned above:
    - Making all the scrolls and potions purchasable against gold and crystals, as a majority of existing recipes. At a price proportional to their powers. Thus, the most resistant player to Pay2win can buy all these items without paid with real money, provided they play and farm enough to afford them.
    And players preferring to pay, will buy gold and crystals to buy them.
    In summary, push the concept recipes vendors to its full potential, and add the mana potions with equity concerns.

    CONCLUSION :
    Balancing the use and purchase cash shop scrolls and potions (always assuming they are not abused, yes I know it's hard) is a perilous exercise, if not impossible if no concession share UbiSfot is done if the benefits obtained for the purchase of these items is an important source of income.
    Nuançons this finding by issuing the assumption that apart from some very powerful scrolls, the most common currently does not necessarily change the outcome of a fight in enormous proportions. And again, the most common recipes are already purchasable by all players.
    Finally we come to the conclusion that the real problem is not so much the purchase of these items, but their effects. TOO powerful effects. Between arcane blast that can destroy an entire army, and mana potions that make superficial the "Magic" statistic (posing a serious problem to the passage of game design), it is finally time to address the sensitive issues of the current balance.

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    BladeMate's Avatar
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    I like PvP but I find that PvP Season is very time consuming and this is the probably biggest reason why I stay away from it.
    Random PvP matches not very encouraging as well because it is not spontaneous enough. Need for banners/shrines kills spontaneity.
    Also in matches when ammunition of Tier 13 fights Tier 1 there is nothing left for strategy, calculation, chess like based tactics.
    ...
    There are good PvP Event model exists and working well:
    Lets say during period of 2-3 day every player need to complete 20 fights.
    Then 1st place share those participants who win all 20 matches.
    2nd place all who win 19 matches
    3rd all who win 18 matches.
    all needed is to implement reward system so all players will find it rewarding to complete all 20 matches.

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    Gauldroth's Avatar
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    correction: I wanted to say statistic "Spirit," and not "Magic" in the penultimate phrase of the conclusion

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    Gauldroth's Avatar
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    I continue to write about it, but I do not know if I'll post it. Indeed I realize that the game is programmed to die. Really.

    The current economic model homm online, too designed for payers. It is simplistic to say that I know, but review the balance returns to question the free to play model and pay2win ... And with Heroes VII will happen, I do not think HOMM online is a future.

    It's a shame, because the game's PvP potential I think. Short.

    Community VS profit ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauldroth View Post
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    All players begin a season with 10 battle tokens. A token corresponds to the possibility of launching a PvP battle. These tokens are on sale at the cash shop
    How exactly does this resolve anything. If anything, it makes it worse. Players should pay to fight in PvP?

    You seem to have tried to resolve imbalance, but it looks to me like you're going in circles. I'm sorry, but the PvP system you have proposed would be a catastrophe.

    The best change they can do at the moment to balance the fight between might and magic heroes, is to give only 1 charge to Griffins' ability "soar" (they have 2 charges at the moment). Otherwise might heroes have no hope of landing a hit before they're wiped out by magic hero.

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