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Thread: Endgame Necro Stack composition: Ghosts or not?

  1. #1

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    Endgame Necro Stack composition: Ghosts or not?

    After a thorough discussion with Mikas, several ideas regarding the use of Ghosts in a Highlevel (28+) build emerged.

    The initial hypothesis was that Ghosts are good to take damage and tank as:
    - there's a Rezz Core spell that will keep them healthy and aplenty,
    - they fly and thus can occupy a desired location good for tanking
    - they are cheap and often expendable due to low cost and high ghost production rate
    - they provide three charges of useful microhealing that can negate any accidental damage suffered in combat.

    However, Ghosts were found suspect of being a burden and useless and ultimately to be replaced with other stacks:
    - Ghosts are often oneshotkilled in hilvl battles due to low total HP of the stack. Thus, you end up using the Rezz Elite spell only again, but also you have lost a stack without much profit.
    - Instead of the microhealing provided by the ghost stack one can use the Lifedrain Mass Heal ability, and the quickbar spell can be replaced by the new spell
    - low initiative and, more importantly, low range mean that most of the time ghosts will not be used at all and only reserved for tanking purposes
    - a lich-intensive build means high damage and less need for extended tanking as projected by the ghost use premise

    The use of Mass Lifedrain for microhealing really renders Ghosts mostly obsolete.
    Replacing them with Vampires allows to increase the total party damage output, receive healing from their Lifedrain, and use the Switch ability to the user's benefit.
    In extreme cases basic Life Drain can still be used to heal injured stacks.
    The battles where grave losses are negated or crucial time is saved by healing a tanking stack of ghosts are fully offset by a similar amount of battles where the Ghosts' stack is killed or onehitkilled due to their low general HP.

    Thus for me the endgame PvE build would look like:
    - 2x archliches
    - 1x spinners
    - 1x Putrid Lamasus
    - 1x Vampires

    This is to be tested and verified and compared to such alternative builds as mass vampire lords, but so far I would like to get feedback and corrections from the more experienced players.

  2. #2

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    Must leave a remark that level 28 is not endgame.

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    Well, the endgame standard army is 5 archliches for necro. Necro has many ways to heal, so ghosts are not needed at all. It is as simple as that, you can do daily quests and most weekly bosses with this.

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    Agree with Sziike. with all the utility you have none of the mobs should get into melee range or even damage range in usual battles. there are a few exceptions (i.e. Voice) where a stack of ghosts may come in handy but in general 5 archliches should serve you well as a Necro.

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    I must say that if properly used, Vampires coupled with Putrid Lamassus can perform real miracles deep behind the enemy lines.
    If coupled with Warlord's Command, Vampires can dish almost as much damage as Liches without losing numbers.
    A Reinforced stack of PLs can eat away the retaliation and after that Vampires come in and dish vast damage, and if needed, can be healed almost fully by using Warlord's Command for them.
    I'll never go full lich

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    It depends on your playstyle. For me, I don't need Ghosts to heal, and prefer keeping a safe distance from my enemies, thus I don't like to use melee units.

    And, yes, level 28 is not the endgame yet. After level 28, there are 102 more levels to go.

    At the real endgame, enemies will be strong enough to one-hit destroy your units. It's no longer about if you can heal enough or your units have high enough defence. It's about avoid getting hit at all cost.
    Last edited by Syltom; 12.11.15 at 01:00.
    Hibernating and waiting for Black Dragons

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    That's a, that's really a very good point, quite illustrative, enlightening. Yes, that is a very strong point in favor of mass liches =]

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    Syltom is right ... in T13 battles (which you could really call as part of "end game"), you'll face enemy elite units with stacks of 1k or stacks of champions with 400-500 in coops. If you go with a vamp or putrid lamasus to "eat retaliation" your whole stack is just gone, it'll die instantly.

    However, there are many good uses for almost all types of creatures in special battles from expeditions and raids, at least for low and mid level .... high lvl is usually just faceless/liches/glories.

    specially in raids, you can use different setups, mostly from personal choices, here some of the units that can be used in some special fights on raids and expeditions:

    Defense battles: Praetorians, Celestials, Griffins, Vamps, Putrid Lamasus, Spiders (+ ghosts/priests for healing)
    Offense battles: Vamps or Griffins/Celestials (if you are might hero), magic heroes usually go for the standard liches/glories or even faceless
    Ranged battles: Marksmen or Spiders
    Melee battles: Vamps or Griffins
    Might battles: Marksmen, Praetorians, Griffins, Celestials, Vamps, Lamasus, Spiders (some people also uses Thunderbirds or Faceless)
    Chieftain battles: Usually mix of Faceless with Vamps or Spiders or Griffins (+ ghosts/priests for healing)


    After the event with haven special units, I'm starting to see a lot of haven heroes using "The Elders" as healer unit instead of the standard priest (mostly from might heroes)

    In the end, the important is the fun, you can play the way you feel more comfortable with ... but as almost everybody said, the "standard" for heroic battles or daily quests would be 5x liches (for magic heroes .... might heroes still uses 1 spectre + 5x liches to help healing elites)

  9. #9

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    Thanks for your comment, Leraf, it's very enlightening and in all forms profound for me. Very interesting. "Upvoted and rated."

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