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Thread: Another Wall of Text: A Lot of Feedback

  1. #1

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    Another Wall of Text: A Lot of Feedback

    There are now enough issues that I've noticed that need to be addressed (in my opinion), that it is reasonable to compile them together.

    First of all the weakest link in the whole MMHO infrastructure is the forum itself. The forum is divided into too many subforums, almost 75% of which are simply empty. There is no motivation at all to place a post in one of such subforums because of the perception that no one will read it and no one will pay attention to it. If there would be a place that is used where all of the posts would be bundled together and viewed together, that would increase the incentive to go ahead and make a post. I think it would be better if forums were merged into less, but bigger compartments. I don't know how the archive works and maybe restoring some posts from the archive to the now empty subforums would be better, since the criteria for moving a thread to the archive are quite weird: normally, one would only do that if the thread loses relevance, like due to changes/patches/etc, but right now I have the feeling you have just moved there threads that are old, without regarding their relevancy.

    Next on my list is Lossless PVP. Basically some small casualties can be justified, but the fact that there's barely maybe 40 active PvP players (max - 80) and they all know each other and the queue is always empty and nobody plays PvP means that steps should be taken to promote PvP and encourage people to participate, of which steps a Lossless PvP system would really really really motivate people to try again and again and not worry or be frustrated or put off by the fact they'll have to spend several hours farming to be able to afford this one PvP match. I'd add some VAST bonuses for participating in PvP. I'd like to be able to play, as a L29 necro, against another n00b late-twenties player and not vs some evil villain mastermind that has 60K bp in gear alone and has 4 stacks of Praetorians with 96% might resistance. I'd like to just play against other new players AND use a nice and interesting army, so it's more like a Combat and less like the wicked, weird process that it is right now.

    Which brings us to the issue of Army Composition Structure. Again and again I witness that armies are used by players that are extremely straightforward and disgustingly dull. People live on 5 stacks of glories or 5 stacks of Archliches, or 5 stacks of Spinners in PvP et cetera. I can totally see how that is working, but I tell you one thing: one must return unconditionally to an army composition that is not limited to just one unit, but represents MORE types of creatures available for hire.
    Otherwise it's boring, straightforward, and dull to play, using just one type of creatures.
    You could introduce a limit of no more than 2 stacks of a unit type (both graded and upgraded). You could install (as Mikas has suggested in a private conversation) new forms of damage/armor interactions so that the shooters would be Forced to have tanks with them. It is obvious that, with all the abilities and spells, waging war with a diverse, interesting army composition is way more fun than just 5 stacks of point-and-click units.
    Always in Heroes it was that one uses a huge variety of creatures available for recruit. The units should display synergy between them and reinforce each others' strengths and styles. Of course, then in the end one could say he's waging war with all the same abilities again and again (as Mikas has remarked), but then, using the same abilities again and again is way better than using no abilities and just focusing the enemy with glories/liches. Make it work D:

    Next, I'll pass on commenting on the Minor Artefact hunt daily quest, which is ridiculously hard to accomplish, since Expert Battles give you mundane, major and other types too, and the location treasure chests give one just puny Valued artefacts that don't pass for the quest's requirements. I am withdrawing my criticism here, because I'mma guild member and I can just come to the guild province and pay hard-earned cash for whatever artifacts are needed by the daily table, so: problem solved. This strikes me as being a bit silly. I am sure MOST of the players will agree that the existing procedure of Artefact Hunt quests is deeply flawed.

    Finally, a problem that is very easy to solve, so that it's existence itself puzzles me. There are 16 abilities to be available to a level 30 Hero. There are also scrolls and potions. BUT guess what yes we have a winner: Only 8 quick access slots. Can't it be extended to at least 12? Is it because of native client resolution? Make it optional, so that the people that play in 320x240 only see 8, while everyone who can afford it will play with as many QuickAccess slots as is enough. QuickAccess provides vital information about the spell's state (ready vs recharging), and a well done quickaccess will remind you of additional opportunities that you tend to forget about if your quickaccess only allows so many spells. I.E. if there's always a spot for Mass Weakness or Overwhelm or LifeDrain or other such spells, you are constantly reminded of their existence and begin to incorporate them into your play style. You can't have that with an 8-slot quickaccess panel. Please, fix that, as it's not that hard to do, I think.
    I just always forget about Mass Weakness or Life Drain, and with a bigger QA bar that would not happen.

    There. That's it. Voila.
    AND: ADD A STASH PLEASE!

  2. #2
    Community Team BB_Eraya's Avatar
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    Hi granddwill,

    As always you're providing very useful feedback and suggestions, so I will make sure it gets to the appropriate teams.

  3. #3

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    I have a comment mostly about army composition concern.

    First, I don't play PvP (usually). PvP has way too much difference compared to PvE.
    Second, I don't have any new forms of damage/armor interactions to suggest as there is one system already in place. Some creatures have penalty to their resistance against certain damage type.
    This works great in PvE, in PvP slight weakness to something is useless as long as Soul Mark bestows the enemy a massive weakness to everything. I don't find Soul Mark good in PvE either. Just normal enemies have relatively low native resistance compared to what heroes may have. Soul Mark becomes devastating when resistance is high. Bosses do have high resistances, it is simply not so bad because one naturally wishes to take an army strong versus the boss in addition to the Soul Mark.


    Ordinary army composition regardless of the stage of the game you are in is: as few tanks as you can field and get away with that (with 0 being a viable option later), and as many damage dealing stacks as you can afford. Optionally stacks for support. All purely support options are healers, since while higher tier creatures do have support abilities, they also have enough damage output to pass for a damager stack.

    In PvP the enemy is no longer stupid. This is not a bad point at all, rather I wish one day to see all enemies countering my tricks. Currently this is one of the sources of inequality between two modes. The other is: there is no heroes present in PvE. Some encounters have a sort of a leader, but they don't play as important role as player's hero, obviously, or even obey the same rules. By this I mean they have no stats and little abilities, relying on greater numbers of troops instead, in non-unique manner.
    You can't have tanks as no one will focus attention on them, going straight to the main threat. Flying units bypass area of control that defending stacks create around themselves. Stacks disabled by abilities also provide no area protection. Archers may shoot other archers directly if they have a movement or range boost on. With tanks not fulfilling their purpose and supporters not suffering damage penalty everything that's left is damage stacks to amass.

    PvP is point and click when it comes to the army. Any real things are done by the heroes… Which is no different from any other Heroes game though… Other Heroes games are having exactly the same point and click basis, neither they mainly focus on unit's abilities, yet are different from MMHO, because they are strategies. They have a strategy map that matters. When, where and for what, all are in place and counted for. Fighting the enemy hero on second week is completely different from fighting on second month. Distinct factions have different progress curves. Capturing mines and castles is a great boon. MMHO is no strategy. No one is forced to fight underdeveloped. Having one creature type entirely wiped is simply impossible. Great deal of varying circumstances is taken away. The gameplay as it is Heroes can't be in the scope of current PvP mechanics in Heroes Online. There is, however, duel mode in Heroes V. Forgotten sites with their imposed limitations also come much closer to the goal.

    With everything said it comes down to the need of having all stacks alike, reasonably tough with great damage. Currently we can't, for example, use weak stack to eat the retaliation. Because we can't use a weak stack. Because we can eat retaliation with just as strong stack, be overall stronger and pay nothing for it in the end. I used to suggest limiting amount of champions and elites once, but I'm not sure because I see it won't cover all sides of the problem. Maybe the game should make the diversity desirable in the first place, instead of placing any hard limits.

    I also don't entirely like the flavor of tank, damage, support mechanic currently in place in PvE battles. In Heroes it feels more like all the creatures in army aid each other by action. Sometimes they perform different roles based on the situation, not a machinery performing their roles independent of what's going on.

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