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Thread: PVP: Sanctuary / Scrolls / Potions: It must stop.

  1. #31
    aginco's Avatar
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    btw.

    sanctuary problem is easy to be solved in pvp by adding a rule if only a creature with sanctuary is on a battlefield hero is not able to attack too (it should be able to use supportive spells).

  2. #32
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    This subject is so fragile and so important, but sadly left unsettled for so long now...

    I would never vote for removing scrolls, potions or abilities from game, still remember disaster caused by removing LifeDrain, Regeneration, Taunt, FableMind and PainfulBond scrolls not long time ago (it felt like server broke on half, and that huge important part of players decided to never return to game )

    From other hand I cannot stand long battles..
    People hate me because I rush every PvE battle, and comment all misused spells..
    Try imagine me in 90 minutes PvP match - I would finish on E.U. with post stress heart failure


    I do agree that cutting down scrolls usage in PvP could be a good idea.
    For sure making matches limited to time frames would solve the issue.

    But only if they become real fights, I would say more like Boxing ring..
    Do not count life points left - that will only encourage people to run around, and save their stacks; that will encourage to use sanctuary, and all protective spells.
    Give players points for hits, for moves, for initiative instead.
    That will turn boring and long matches into real battles, and force players to fight.

    And I believe such changes could remove Sanctuary Dance issue all together.
    Noone sane will protect their stacks forever if match can take max 10 rounds (or say 20 minutes), and game algorithm will count hit points to select the winner.


    +1 for Threads like this.. It gives hope


    All the Best,

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    ( , , )
    o(")(") PinkRabbit

    If You Change Nothing,
    Nothing Will Change

    PinkRabbit / x__X / Amu_Chan

  3. #33

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    About scrolls and potions

    To make a parenthesis on scrolls and potions:

    I made two full PVP seasons, playing every day to be in top ten, in two weeks that's what I spent on scrolls and potions:

    * 40 scrolls of Defiance
    * 30 scrolls of Entrenchment
    * 20 scrolls of Corruption
    * 30 scrolls of Regeneration
    * 40 scrolls of Arcane blast
    * 10 scrolls of Sundering strike
    * And may be around 150 potions (in all kinds.)

    + scrolls payable crystals without seals:

    * 30 scrolls of Warlod's command
    * 30 scrolls of agony
    * 30 scrolls of sanctuary
    * 40 scrolls of Dispel magic
    * 30 scrolls of Fireball
    * 10 scrolls of Retribution mass


    Fortunately, scrolls and potions were kept and accumulated since my beginning in the game. So I paid nothing (or almost) to enjoy it, but after two seasons only, how to continue to fight fairly against our opponent who pay to win?

    This is a disproportionate cost to fight at the same level as the other.


    If I play without it, I lose my fights because my opponent played with.

    If I play with, it is a pay to win.



    if a player wants to play Entrenchment, it must play a Haven Might..

    If a player wants to play Arcane Blast, he takes it in his abilities.

    If a player wants to play Agony he must play a Necro.

    Otherwise what is the purpose of having multiple factions and different types of heroes if we can get all heroes abilities?

  4. #34

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    Last intervention and removal scrolls probably with the best intention to equate the class or what already hit the weakest faction knight.
    Regardless of which solution to be in desire to improve PvP must be in the context of.
    Removal of scrolls is in fact will strengthened the clerics.
    Maybe solution in simply if u lost 4 (5 stacks for might) is end of match.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by aginco View Post
    btw.

    sanctuary problem is easy to be solved in pvp by adding a rule if only a creature with sanctuary is on a battlefield hero is not able to attack too (it should be able to use supportive spells).
    that is never going to happen and it shouldn't, The sanctuary dance is just another tactic and as it is pvp is not what it should be that is not the answer to fixing it people were saying the same thing about IMPS when that was the BIG thing in pvp and it will just be something else. Maybe a solution is to maybe add a draw function, so after a certain amount of rounds... Example: after 15 rounds if you both have 1 stack under sanctuary it becomes a draw and you split the points 37 each or something like that this way it's not that much of a long fight you already have sudden death after 12 rounds so add a draw after 15 rounds and it would be based on how many stacks you have, if player A has 3 stacks and player B has 1 stack player A wins... if both have 1 stack it's a draw... something like that, rather then removing anything... in my opinion this is about wanting it to be easy, and not having to think... you can beat the sanctuary dance if you use your head but people are not willing to do that... well most that is... so instead they whine and complain about it being too hard like I said before pvp is about beating your opponent nothing else...

  6. #36

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    Some players only know their cleric chars , they don't care anything about knight and necro when fight with clerics

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by h4nni View Post
    Maybe solution in simply if u lost 4 (5 stacks for might) is end of match.
    Can be the solution .. I like your idea, so simple. One of the best I read until now.

  8. #38

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    The plain and simple fact is that PvP is EXTREMELY BROKEN. The best solution would be to eliminate it completely because in the past, threads like this have led to the total nerfing of a class. Although I was not there to witness it and I heard it second hand, Heroism on haven knights was changed due to a thread like this complaining that haven knights were too strong in PvP. Whether this is true or not, I cannot confirm but if threads like this will lead to further nerfing of the knight classes, I say get rid of PvP.

    Take a look at this link to see what Heroism was like before: http://forum.clb.heroes-online.com/t...-skills/page10

    As a haven knight, I rely exclusively on sanctuary to do high level battles in a PvE / Expedition environment, a removal of the sanctuary scroll or any increase to cool down time on the ability itself will render my haven knight completely ineffective in many battles. I use a blocker stack to block a single access choke point in many battles where a faceless / tranquil guardian army are not viable. I then use a stack to block the choke point and try to keep that stack in sanctuary for as long as possible so that I can use my other troops to hit from behind the blocker. This tactic has served me very well. If I get my timing right and a map with a good chokepoint, I can keep that blocker stack in sanctuary for the entire T13 battle.

    So if the solution to "fixing" PvP is to remove sanctuary scrolls or change the sanctuary ability itself, I am DEFINITELY NOT IN FAVOUR OF THIS!!!!!

    And to be quite honest, the player that started this thread is being very hypocritical because they use the sanctuary tactic themself.

    The sanctuary tactic is just that, a tactic, a strategy. I didn't do as much PvPing as I would have liked but for the battles I did, if I came across someone using this strategy, I just surrendered for gold because I knew it would be a long fight that I likely wouldn't win so instead of losing all that time, I would rather find another opponent that I have a chance of beating. Early on, I was fighting them to the bitter end because I wasn't going to lose troops but knew they would. This strategy requires precise timing AND it can be counteracted a number of different ways which I will not mention. Not to mention, it is difficult to master and many players make mistakes giving other players a window of opportunity. The strategy itself can be used as a deterrent against other opponents, making them surrender immediately for gold. This is a smart strategy BUT there is a huge problem with it and I will get to that later.

    The problem arises with the whole sudden death thing where troops gain a 400%? damage increase. If a knight is facing a cleric using praetorians, they don't stand a chance in sudden death. Even if the knight decides to just defend and not attack, the cleric can use the sanctuary method and kill the enemy stacks by attrition using magic damage. I believe the whole sudden death thing has to be re-evaluated. The whole damage increase thing has to go. What should happen instead is that heroes are no longer able to use scrolls or mana pots beyond that point. This would make a lot more sense and would likely balance PvP a lot more. Battles would no longer be going into 40-50 rounds. They would likely be over in 20-30 rounds or less. A smart mage would restore mana to maximum just before sudden death hits but they would not be able to play the attrition game for long.

    Also, if PvP is still unbalanced in favour of might classes after a change to sudden death, maybe adding mass reinforcements to the might classes would be a good way to offset this. It was suggested by Neolisk in the Haven Knight no skills thread and at first I thought it wouldn't really change much for me but would be an improvement for PvE nonetheless. When I started thinking about PvP, I realized it would be a good change since it would add some balance for the knight classes in both PvE and PvP. There are ways to balance it out and it is possible to use the same abilities in PvP and PvE as long as the PvP system is properly implemented. It is my opinion that sudden death is a big problem in PvP and if that were changed, it could re-balance PvP.

    Now back to the whole sanctuary tactic, the other problem with this strategy is that players that use it become hated by other PvPer's so the other players start reporting them to support saying they are being "dropped" when in reality, that is their strategy, to force people to surrender to them early for an easy victory. I am very leary of doing PvP ever again because being high on the list puts a huge target on your back, especially if you have enemies in game and typically reports like this to support end up with a vacation away from the game which in some cases is not deserved either. And to be quite honest, why should support be giving players vacations for an EXTREMELY BROKEN PvP system when realistically it should be fixed before actions like this are made. I also personally believe that hero seals should be completely removed from PvP rewards. This will reduce the amount of complaints to support significantly because I am sure that support gets a lot of reports about PvP. As far as I am concerned it is a waste of otherwise valuable technical support resources.

    Again, I think the BEST solution is to completely remove PvP if there are no plans to ever balance it. The only problem is, this is end game content that keeps many otherwise bored players active.

    There are other valid points made here such as about gear, it isn't really a fair fight between a new level 30 player and a level 30 player with fully refined legendary gear on. I made a thread a long time ago proposing a solution to this but it was largely ignored. I suggested having different battle types for different leagues. One would be an open league which would pretty much be the same as what now exists, another would be sort of like the forgotten sites where your gear has no effect, stats are preset and creatures are preset. This would be a true test of skill in my opinion. I even suggested a coop league, that could be really interesting. But I doubt anything will ever change, it has been months since the last version was implemented, there has been no word as to future plans for the game and at times I have to wonder if this game will survive. The release of the slim browser was quite positive because it shows that the developer is not planning on cancelling the game anytime soon but players still need something to look forward too. Anyways, I will stop my ranting there, figured I would post my thoughts on PvP.
    Chromatic

  9. #39

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    Aleska invited me to join this thread when it was first started. I haven't until now mostly because I wanted to be polite, but since Gravel mentioned it above I have to agree publicly. My main is a DK and I have battled Aleska in PVP. And yes, Aleska resorted to the sanctuary tactic because I was wiping out his army.

    In his first post he explains that he was competing against another Cleric and says that he "decided to play like stupid players." I guess that's his justification for doing what he is saying is wrong with PVP. Clearly he was annoyed that the battle went on for so long but it is also clear that he wanted to win, hence he was employing the very same tactics that he is complaining about. OK, whatever. But the hypocrisy gets worse when you take into consideration that I am a DK and he did the same thing when we battled.

    Bottom line is that players go in to PVP to win, by any means and tactics possible. If it's not sanctuary it is another method, and that IS the objective...to win! Do I like the fact that it's tough to beat Clerics in PVP? NO. Am I gonna complain about it and demand that something be changed? NO. I'm gonna play smarter and find ways to beat them.

  10. #40
    Community Team BB_Eraya's Avatar
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    Hi everyone,

    Thank you for sharing your feedback and suggestions with us!

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