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Thread: Heaven Knight no skills

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreedyTraveller View Post
    If knight has some skill combat as powerful as it, things will change.
    I suggest "reinforce all" which will be available together with regular reinforce, as top level skill. Costs more mana, but gives you a fighting chance, compared to other classes.

  2. #22

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    I don't really view mass reinforce as much of an improvement because I would rather have one hero method for crowd control. Yes it is an improvement but it can be situational. I rarely use reinforce in high level expeditions or certain heroic tier battles because the faceless / tranquil guardian combo works very well since you are using the enemy against themselves and in single battles, you need to use your two turns very wisely which means reinforce is an "I don't know what to use now so I will reinforce a stack" ability used during a later round. It would be helpful when doing low level expedition battles, weekly bosses, heroic tier battles against specific creatures that can't be controlled or have very few controllable creatures (swarm, cavern creatures, rioting prisoners) or in specialty battles like undead or prime. It would also be very good for coop battles where there are more turns between the two heroes allowing the player to actually have a turn where it could be used without compromising the battle.

    On the other hand, mass reinforce does add some more fun to the game and might actually give more balance to PvP.

    Haven knights do have crowd control in the form of sanctuary but this is dependent on timing and the map. If the timing is right, a stack can be kept in sanctuary for an entire T13 battle. If there is a single choke point, a player can use a stack you don't normally attack with like say Elders to block a chokepoint and just keep them in sanctuary. This way other troops can be used to strike at the enemy from behind the blocker stack. I use Elders because the enemy can get around the blocker and if I get hit, I like to be able to heal but most of the time, they don't do much other than some end of round clean-up on almost dead stacks. This is the one huge advantage that Knights have over Death Knights. There are a lot of T13 battles I can do with my Haven Knight that I cannot do with my Death Knight due to this trick. And a lot of players are impatient because they just want to "kill everything" without moving. In tough battles, I will often take a round or two just to position my troops usually in Round 1 and midway through the battle. Yes, the battle takes longer but if the same battle were done by a cleric, it would take just as long. Most of the time, the troops used by Haven Knights have good movement range so this is not an issue. A Death Knight with all archliches find themselves in a different situation since they have limited movement and need to "kill everything" before they get in striking distance.

    There are two other crowd control type abilities, intimidation and taunt. I do find I use intimidation a lot on my Death Knight since it is a requirement for Desolation and it can very useful. Taunt is also a type of crowd control but in high level battles, it is useless as your stack will likely get annihilated by the surrounding enemies even though it will use up their turn for that round. It is alright if you use it on a lower level battle where they can't do enough damage to cause high losses.

    The main thing is that the Knight classes do need more passive abilities and abilities that cost less in mana (namely ones like Defiance, Sundering Strike and Heroism even though Heroism is fairly useless). I am uncomfortable with less than 600 mana on my Haven Knight and I am more comfortable with 800 mana. Yet on the Death Knight side, I am comfortable with half that amount.

    And there are just some solo battles that Knight classes will not be able to do, atleast not without heavy casualties because they require a high level of crowd control. And there are some battles that are really difficult for mage classes where a knight class has the a huge advantage due to inspired assault or pre-emptive strike making the battles relatively easy for them. There is a bit of a balance there but there is no denying that the mage classes are way more versatile and can do a lot more different specialty battles.

    In all reality, a haven knight can do most battles wihout mass reinforce but there are many battles that I find I can't do because I am short in the crowd control department, if I had just one cc ability then I could have done those battles quite easily. The other issue is healing, I would love to have a divine version of Life Drain. But then again, there are only so many ability points to use and abilities like mass reinforcements would be an extra skill point requirement so it would be hard to get the ultimate knight hero but it would allow for more flexibility and variability in player builds.
    Chromatic

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravel View Post
    n all reality, a haven knight can do most battles wihout mass reinforce but there are many battles that I find I can't do because I am short in the crowd control department
    I now have cleric hero also, I can tell that in low 20-ies the game became a breeze. When I had a knight at that level, it became harder and harder to the point when I couldn't finish the game without help. As a cleric, I can continue the battle for long, with 1200 mana at lvl 24, even if I lose 75% of troops, I use crowd control to run away and heal, very possible with glories, sun cavs and shout. I also use sanctuary as you mentioned, to give myself more time to reposition troops. Soul mark is at 34% already, and it really adds value to battle. For pre-emptive strike troops, like imperial griffins, who also have unlimited retaliations, I use pacify and then soul mark them a couple times (soul mark at end of turn, and then re-apply the following turn), the stack is usually dead by end of round. With knight such tricks were impossible and imperial griffins we a pain in the neck to deal with.

    P.S. My knight has 300-400 mana, you can imagine how uncomfortable it feels.
    Thanks for intimidation trick, I didn't think about it, really most troops are core or elite, so yes, could be used for blocking choke points.

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