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Thread: Heaven Knight no skills

  1. #1

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    Cool Heaven Knight no skills

    After one year and 99 post they change nothing ?
    So i open this treat again
    Maybe one more year and 99 post will make diference

  2. #2

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    Could you elaborate on what you want to be changed? I wasn't here 1 year ago.

  3. #3

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  4. #4

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    briefly Knight need emergency changes
    a more passive abilities
    heroism or defiance should be passive like the desolation
    succor should have the power of regeneration at the end of the round
    and should one Ability for stopping as blind

  5. #5

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    h4nni i agree 100% they are useless !!!

  6. #6

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    I agree, there are many things that can be improved about the knight class. Saying this as a knight class myself.

    I would stick to the original effects, but make them more versatile. For example, rename "heal core" to just "heal", and make it possible to heal champion creatures as well. Then it becomes a choice whether you collect a lot of might or also allocate for heroic support. Currently a no brainer.

    Inspired assault should add multiplier to the current damage, not base creature damage. Currently the effect diminishes as your hero becomes stronger, so at T13 with might=4000 inspired assault is practically useless. No skills should ever be useless at any point in game.

    Taunt should cost less mana (for example, 20), and its effect should increase with heroic support or magic. 50% of damage dealt at T13 is still 1 stack killed. But perhaps 5% damage is still okay for some melee strategies.

    Heroism should have the same cast mechanics as soul mark, but on friendly creatures. To recap, only one stack affected at all times, stackable, never expires unless dispelled. Mana cost = 100 sounds like a fair starting point.

    I'm okay with passive defiance and succor passive healing. Heal amount should be based off heroic support, to make improving that a viable build option.

    Blind - not sure, you could get away with improving "overwhelm" or whichever that spell is called, then it actually can become useful.
    What I'm suggesting is making it "entangle" a target on attack, i.e. cannot move, but can attack in the current round. Keep the original effect, i.e. no retaliation.

    Overall, I'm pretty sure we players can come up with many ideas for a balanced knight profile, but it's up to developers to implement, does not seem like any movement in that direction.

  7. #7
    Community Team BB_Wolfberry's Avatar
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    Hi h4nni, I will pass your feedback and suggestions to the devs again in a gentle push.

  8. #8

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    I finally got my haven knight to Heroic Tier 13 so I was finally able to see just how it compares to other classes. They do need improvement but so do the death knights. For the haven knight, the biggest issue is that with the limited amount of turns, you can't use all of the great abilities to their full effect so you have to choose which abilities to use and you have to know when to use them because using them at the wrong time can be costly. The biggest issue is the mana cost for many of the abilities and realistically more abilities need to be passive for both knight classes.

    Death knight is a bit easier to play as it is easier to get a standard pattern down for each battle but a haven knight is a little more versatile. The best way to keep the enemy away from you is to use a blocker tactic using sanctuary but sometimes you don't need to do this on round 1 or 2 and sometimes you might need to do it on round 1. I am able to do T13 battles versus Rioting Prisoners using this technique and it really doesn't matter how many indomitable orc captive stacks are in the battle. I can do the same thing with a cleric but the battle will take a bit longer. I can't do the same thing for death knight or necromancer because they don't have sanctuary. The ability and scrolls pretty much allow a player to keep a choke point blocked indefinitely in a battle if your timing is right. So in some respects, the haven knight can be a strong class. In a way they are a little more versatile than death knights. Take the battles in expedition where starting positions are random, a haven knight can have an easier time in these battles due to the pre-emptive strike ability. Healing is a bit of an issue though if you don't have access to elders.

    I don't agree about inspired assault and overwhelm being useless though. Although inspired assault may seem 'useless' on your own troops, it does add quite a bit of damage to stacks you control with Mind Pierce. The creature attack bonus from Might does diminish slightly as it gets higher so that really makes inspired assault a bit more effective at high character level. And overwhelm is a very useful ability to use on a Mind Pierced stack that can be retaliated so you won't lose it after the first attack. For example, when doing a living coop battle, it is very useful when controlling blessed that are standing beside a big stack of Elders or Enlightened that you can't petrify, blind, pacify, torpor or stasis. You can put overwhelm on it and warlord command it to take out that dangerous stack before it can act. Overwhelm is also useful for attacking stacks that have pre-emptive strike (not including baleful gaze) since it cancels out retaliation. It is not an ability that gets used often but it is more useful than say Pursuit...


    I see some of the suggestions I made in the old thread are common to this thread as well. Since I have had some time to reflect, I would suggest the following:

    For both knight classes:

    Sundering Strike - Make this a non-stackable passive ability that is applied for each hero attack. It should also weaken a target to light damage for a haven knight and prime damage for a death knight. I don't think a cool down is required as it will be hard to use it repeatedly over and over. Once selected, this ability should also increase the damage of the main hero attack.

    Mighty Strike - Make this a separate hero attack that costs no mana with a stunning ability that lasts for 2 rounds and has a cooldown of 3-4 rounds.

    Maiming Strike - It should also be a separate hero attack that costs no mana.

    Intimidation - Target should also not be able to retaliate on a higher tier creature.


    For the Haven Knight only:

    Defiance - This ability should become a passive one that is always active and affects all troops on the battlefield. This ability also needs to be fixed. Currently it does not increase if a negative effect is placed on your troops after the ability is cast. It only works if you cast it after the negative effect is applied. I also believe it should be activated by negative effects placed on your army by enemy heroes from specialty battles like are found in raids or expeditions (a good example would be a Defense battle).

    Heroism - This ability is not all that good because it can be removed by using another shout in the next round. It needs to have a reduced mana cost, should not be "dispelled by another shout" and increase all creature damage types, not just melee might or ranged might. I would also like to see it give a 100% chance for a critical hit. I am not really sure how the luck part of it works at the moment, if you have 10% luck on heroism and 20% on your hero, does it increase that stacks luck by 2% from 20 to 22% or does it add 10% luck to 20% to give the stack 30% luck? This ability seems to be the most useless one to me, if it had a lower mana cost, lasted the full two rounds, gave an increase to all damage types and gave 100% luck to the target stack, I feel it would be worth taking again.

    For the Death Knight and Necromancer only:

    Torpor - Reduce the cool down to 2 rounds to match the blind of a cleric or at least reduce it to a 3 round cool down.


    For Haven Knights and Clerics:

    Heal - I do like the idea of turning heal core into a generic heal that can heal cores, elites and champion living / spirit units and this would have to be applied to clerics as well since this is a common ability. It would make up for the necropolis side having life drain and the necromancer having curse of the netherworld.

    Purity - There should be no way to dispel / purge / cancel this ability since these are sort of like a negative effect which purity is supposed to protect against.

    Sanctuary - This ability works perfectly for PvE and neither the ability nor the scrolls need to be changed for PvE but it does provide a bit of an unfair advantage in PvP. I really have no solution for this ability when it comes to the whole PvE vs PvP thing but I really don't want to see it changed in any way because it will have a huge impact on what battles a haven knight can or can't do in PvE.


    Realistically, the haven knight class is not all that bad because it has some really good abilities but the problem is that it is not an easy class to play, you really have to understand the enemy creatures and how to develop tactics against them. I basically view the haven knight class as the most unbalanced of the classes for this reason but the death knight is also unbalanced but is easier to play since less advanced tactics are required and they have a strong passive ability in desolation. Both knight classes need some tweaking and essentially that means reducing mana costs and increasing the number of passive abilities. The mage classes are pretty much there but could use some very minor tweaks.
    Chromatic

  9. #9
    aginco's Avatar
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    I would like life drain draining health when retailating.

    I would like to see difference between spells lasting 2 turns and spells lasting 2 creature attack turns.

    I am having huge breaks in my gameplay (up to half a year) and getting once more Block casted on a creature before it moves....

    may be turns and rounds or sth?

  10. #10

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    I have same ideas as Neolish about Inspired assault , heroism
    Knight heroes with 1 full stack base damage 3000 damage and when equip full artefact =>10000 damage , when in pvp:
    -Inspired assault +75% creature damage : 10000+2000 =12000 damage
    -Mass weakness -70% creature damage : 10000 -7000 = 3000 damage
    And ex: bonus luck from heroism 20% , only = 1/5 rune luck .. lol
    And I noticed all ability +bonus damage in this game only +damage from base creature damage
    I had buy 300 soul seekers with blood fury ability , and 1 stack only +300 damage in 1 round 14k+300=14k3 damage .. that horrible ....

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